Army Basic Training Message Archives: Page 7

Army Basic Training

Archived Messages

Archived BoardHost Messages (Army Basic Training)

Use the CTRL+F Function of your keyboard to enable a keyword search

Posted by Jim on 4/4/2002, 1:21 pm

My son when to BT at Benning in March. When he enlisted back in April as 11x, he was, according to his recruiter, to receive a bonus for, I think $4000. Since he has a GED they told him when he signed up that he could not have the bonus because of the GED. Can someone explain this??

Posted by SSG Carruthers on 4/5/2002, 9:18 am , in reply to "bonus question"

First the Recruiter was wrong if he made any promises about bonuse, because we (the Recruiters) cannot garentee anything. Only the the Guidance Concelors at the Military Processing Center can guarentee anything, because they write the contracts, which are closed end contracts that can not be changed by the Army, unless the applicant does something that would disqulify him/her from military service.2nd, in the contract your son got will tell you exactly what his bonuses, if any are. 3rd, GED's USUALLY do not qualify for bonuses, unless they have a minumum of 15 college credit hours, then they are considered High School Grads. Why, I really counld'nt tell you.4th, This also depends on the Apllicants score on the ASVAB. If you need to speak to me about this or need any other info, please feel free to call me at (717) 721-6145 from 9:00am EST till 8:00pmSSG Carruthers

Posted by George Ford on 4/4/2002, 5:29 pm

I just talked with my recruiter who basically opened all doors to me. He said I could pick practically any job I wanted due to my high scores on the ASVAB. One that he suggested for me was 51T. Does any one have any suggestions about any other jobs I should look into or inside info on this job. BTY, this is for the National Guard, not active duty.

Re: Best Job Options?

Posted by R on 4/5/2002, 11:01 am , in reply to "Best Job Options?"

Please remember though that your recruiter can't promise you anything! Read the post above yours. I would go to MEPS with a few ideas of MOSs in mind. I would go to the Army Discussion Board at Military.com above and ask for soldier's day-to-day experiences in the MOSs you are interested in.

Some comments on BT at Ft Jackson

Posted by R on 4/5/2002, 10:59 am

Follow the link below to read a discussion at Military.com on Ft Jackson:

Link: http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=78919038&f=65819558&m=3331986414

Posted by Robert on 4/5/2002, 2:08 pm

I start boot camp August 28th at Ft. Leonard Wood. I also have AIT training at the same base because I am training to be an MP. How many days off do I get since I do not have to travel to another location? Also, should my family come to the boot camp graduation or the graduation at the completion of AIT, if there is one at the end of AIT?

Posted by R on 4/6/2002, 8:38 am , in reply to "days off"

Yes, I encourage that your family comes to graduation of BT! It is a big milestone in your life! There will be activities for your family, plus your family can sign you out to spend the night before graduation with them in the hotel. After the graduation ceremony, there is a lunch scheduled in the dining facility (your mess hall) that the parents can go to with you. They usually try to have "surf and turf", but it always depends on the budget for that time for your mess hall. Now this is how we do things in a strictly BT unit. Immediately after, there is a flurry of activity as the drill sergeants separate who goes where. Those staying on post but going over to AIT will be marched over with a truck carrying their bags. The AIT companies will then usually let the parents sign them out on a weekend pass. Those without family present will get on-post passes and have to check in frequently. Training then usually starts that next Monday.

Posted by Sue on 4/5/2002, 3:30 pm

Just wondering what being a girl in bootcamp will be like. I'm sure once I'm there, I won't even have time to think about these things anyway! Are women allowed to bring things like a razor? I know it doesn't really matter, but I'd hate to run around w/ hairy legs for 9 weeks Also, there are obviously certain times of the month when you'd have to go to the latrine a little more often. Are the drill instructors rough on you about this kind of thing? Thanks!

Posted by Brandon on 4/5/2002, 3:38 pm , in reply to "girl stuff"

Hi there. Well, I'm definitly not a girl, but i did read something that was an awesome read. I actually found it here on Raquel's Resources page, but i'll save you the trouble and post the link myself =) It's an excellent dirary kept by a female recruit in 2001. I'm sure males, along with females, will learn alot from this diary. It's long, but well worth it. Check it out

Link: Diary of a Female Recruit

Posted by Brandon on 4/5/2002, 3:39 pm , in reply to "Re: girl stuff"

woops, messed up the link, here it is....

Link: Diary of a Female Recruit

Just did MEPS. It sucked.

Posted by Randal on 4/6/2002, 11:15 am

Just got back from MEPS in San Antonio, TX and I thought I would relay some of the experiences I had. On Thursday night, I was shuttled to MEPS to take my ASVAB. We were greeted at the door by very rude NAVY personel working the control desk. After waiting for 1.5 hours, I was able to sit down to take the test. The room was freezing. My teeth never stopped chattering. The test wasn't bad. I actually got a 99 for the overall (AFQT) score. They said that is as high as you can get. As you can imagine, I was pretty happy that evening. It is too bad the next day sucked. We headed down to the MEPS station at 5:00 to start on the physicals. Everything was going smoothly until they noticed I had a curvature of the spine. I turns out I have scoliosis. They said I needed to get X-rays taken, but they needed to send me to a medical facility somewhere else in the city. They shuttled me to this facility where I sat for hours waiting to have my X-rays taken. After taken, I had to wait an hour to get films. I then called the phone# that MEPS gave me for the shuttle, but could never get hold of anyone. It either rang non-stop or was busy. I kept trying to call for a solid hour until I gave up on that number. You would think that being at a military facility in the same city as MEPS, that someone there would know how to call MEPS directly, but nope... nobody could find the number. I had to search high and low for a phone book to get the number to MEPS. I then called them and let them know that I have been trying to call the shuttle for over an hour and could they try and send someone to get me. After another 30 minutes, my ride came. So I get back to MEPS and show my X-Rays to the doctor who sent me to get them taken. It turns out that I am well within the acceptable limits, but the jerk doctor actually sighed and very disappointedly said, "well... I guess you qualify." The jerk was looking for a reason to DQ me. He actually looked upset that I passed. I then got talk to my career councelor person and they asked what I want to do. I tell them that I want an 11x - airborne contract with a station in an airborne unit (82nd or 173rd). They tried to talk me out of going infantry. They kept asking why a college grad would want to go infantry. I told them that the only way I would sign is with those three above requirments in my contract. Not too much to ask really. People have been asking these things for years. Here is where it gets weird. They say that there is no way I could get into the 82nd or the 173rd. In fact, they said there there is little possibility for me to even get airborne. It is all full. There are no training slots. But the whole time they are saying this, they are also pushing me to take an 18X (special forces) contract. This sounds cool, but I don't think I could pass the SFAS selection. I am smart enough to know my physical limitations. What I am worried about is that if I fail SFAS (which 80% do) then I'd be up for "worldwide assignment". They could send me to Korea ( a year without my wife) or Ft. Polk, or Alaska, or Ft. Drum. What I am saying is that they could send me any where in the world and fill any old 11B spot. The Army person kept saying,"no, no, no. They'll put you in an Airborne unit. Why would they spend all of that money and put you in a "legs" unit or a mech. inf. unit?" Everywhere I have looked and everything my recruiter has told me is that this is a lie. They can put you anywhere. ANYWHERE! She insisted that "world-wide assignment" didn't actually mean what it sounded like. If anyone can clarify this, I'd appreciate this. This went on for a while, but because it took so long for me to get my X-Rays, it was already late Friday afternoon and there was nobody they could call. They said they will try again if I come back on Monday. I am a college grad in good physical shape who scored a 99 on the ASVAB and I can't even get into an airborne unit. I'm not in the Army yet and I am scared at the crazy beaurocracy I will have to live with if I do go in. We'll see how it goes on Monday.

Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked.

Posted by s on 4/12/2002, 5:18 pm , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked."

If you are a college graduate with such a high ASVAB score, have you considered (OCS) Officer Candidate School? If your college grades were good, you should have little trouble qualifying.

Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked.

Posted by JC on 4/8/2002, 8:03 am , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked."

I AGREE WITH WHAT THE OTHERS ARE SAYING. WHEN I WAS AT MEPS THEY TOLD ME I COULDNT GET AIRBORNE SCHOOL AND THAT IT HAD NO OPENINGS. THEN THE JOB CLASSIFIER MADE ONE PHONE CALL AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WAS THERE. SO, THE CAN GIVE YOU WANT YOU WANT! GOOD LUCK

Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked.

Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 9:31 am , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked."

The whole MEPS system probably needs a good "shakedown". Mind you, I personally do not know anyone (or have ever known anyone) who works in MEPS, but I am constantly hearing such accounts! Just terrible! Please don't judge the rest of the Army on the folks who work at your MEPS! If you have made up your mind on what you want to do in the military, then stick to your guns. Your request is not that out of the ordinary. This SF option must be new, as I've just been hearing about it this year. You're right, your heart really has to be in it to make it through SFAS, and even then they might not take you. Worldwide means just that..ie, wherever there is a slot, you will go (in whatever unit). Granted, if you are airborne, they would most likely send you to an airborne unit, but again, it is no guarantee. I don't know how long you plan to be in the Army but chances are very good that you would go to Korea after your first duty assignment (let's say if you got your first duty station in your contract..there is no guarantee that you would stay stateside after that). Many, many married soldiers serve in Korea, and many without their families. It's just one of the sacrifices we make, so if you do join up, please do be prepared for separations from your family (not just Korea but you'll go on training exercise, sometimes up to a month or you could get deployed with your unit for 6 months elsewhere in the world..just because you are stationed stateside does not mean you will not participate in these deployments or exercises). Good luck!

Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked.

Posted by MemphisFire on 4/6/2002, 10:23 pm , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked."

>>I am a college grad in good physical shape who scored a 99 on the ASVAB and I can't even get into an airborne unit. I'm not in the Army yet and I am scared at the crazy beaurocracy I will have to live with if I do go in.<< Your MEPS experiences are much like mine and many other people. I feel the Doctors and Physical Exams staff are "graded" or evaluated on how many people they are able to DQ. (ie. the more you DQ, the more it looks like you are doing your job) The only hypocrisy in all of this is when your recruiter tells you to lie about a preexisting medical condition. With your grades and drive have you ever thought about becoming a military pilot? The US Army has a Warrant Officer Flight Training program that sounds like you'd qualify for. Of course, if you do mention this, I doubt your recruiter would actually support your decision. But, as a Pilot you can be assigned to an Air Assault unit, Special Forces (SOAR), etc. Bottom line......get what you want. They work for your tax money.

Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked.

Posted by Ashli on 4/6/2002, 3:22 pm , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked."

As a military spouse for the last 10 years, let me assure you that the army is NOTHING like MEPS. I just enlisted for OCS. It's taken me 6 months to get to this point. I had to get a med waiver and about 500 other waivers to get in. Our MEPS doc is a complete jerk and had a good time disqualifying me. The army surgeon general approved my waiver and just wanted one statement from this doc--that he saw proof I was cancer free for 5 or more years. I provided that, but everytime I submitted documents, he (MEPS doc) found something else he wanted to check out. We finally complained about him to the LTC, and I had my med waiver the next day. I never want to see MEPS again, but I have to go back there to ship out. Be sure to stick to your guns about what you want. Tell them if they can't give it to you, you're leaving and maybe you'll go talk to another branch. Tell them to give you a call when they have the job and schools you want available, and maybe you'll still be interested. It may take some time, but I'll bet they come around. Remember--don't settle!!! Good luck!

Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...?

Posted by Chris on 4/6/2002, 12:20 pm

Hello everyone. I would just like to know what everybody here thinks of the Air Force. Preferably from people in it.

Re: Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...?

Posted by Dave Truitt on 4/8/2002, 2:31 pm , in reply to "Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...?"

Chris: Well, i don't think too many AF people frequent this site...there may be a similar site out there for the AF. My impressions of the AF is that it is a good service (they all are). If you're asking whether it's better than the Army, I think that is a VERY idividual decision. For some people the AF is the better choice, for others, the Army is. It just depends on what you're looking for. I will say this, however: the Army offers more enlistment options that the AF. In some MOS, you can enlist for just 2 years in the Army; in the AF, you must enlist for at least 4 years. Also, a lot of people go into the AF WITHOUT a guaranteed job...in other words, they go to Basic without knowing exactly what they will be training for once the leave Basic. They find out while they are at Lackland. This might happen in the Army too, but it is the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of people who enlist in the Army know exactly what they are going to be going after Basic...the have it guaranteed in their contract. The Army is also a bit more generous with the bonus $, guaranteed first duty assignment, and pre basic promotions. The AF will only promote to a max of E-3, even if you already have a college degree, while the Army will go to E-4 for degreed applicants. Of course, some would say that the Army has to offer these incentives in order to complete for quality applicants with the other services.

Re: Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...?

Posted by Chris on 4/9/2002, 5:34 pm , in reply to "Re: Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...?"

I appreciate your response, Dave. Thanks for the insight. I really am open as to what I want to do. Let's just say that physically I am more than ready for even SEAL BUD/S training. What it comes down to for me is which branch is right for me? That's a decision really need to research.

Posted by Jo on 4/6/2002, 5:24 pm

Does the Army cover moving expenses for all soldiers? My husband is going back into the military and I am enlisting for immediate OCS. We need to know if the Army will cover either one of us to PCS. Thanks!

Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 9:21 am , in reply to "Moving Expenses"

Of course the Army will cover your PCS! Maybe I misunderstand you somehow? If the military reassigns you to a new duty station, they will always pay for the move.

Posted by Henry Cook on 4/7/2002, 4:59 pm

How are the Church services segregated? Are all Christians put together or are they segregated into thier prospective denominations (i.e. pentacostal, catholic, mormon, baptist, or any others)? What about those who are Buddist or Hindu, do they have religious accomodations there as well?

Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 7:59 pm , in reply to "Church Services"

For the major denominations, there are usually services for those at the chapels (ie there will be a Catholic service and a Protestant one). Of course in addition to these, there are also smaller ones encompassing just about every religious faith you can think of (including Buddhist, Moslem, Jewish, etc..). Everyone is accomodated. We even had a person who practiced the religion of the Druids and he was allowed to commune with nature. Military priests, chaplains, rabbis, etc are well-schooled in most of the religious faiths and even if there is not a religious pastor/priest of your faith on post, the others are taught to provide you with the resources you need to practice your religion.

Posted by Sam on 4/7/2002, 5:12 pm

I have what is known as a Hiatal Hernia. Basically there is a funneling of the asophagus right before the stomach, so the complication is that dry foods get caught just before they enter into the stomach. I had this corrected and i order for it to stay corrected for a long time (5+ years rather than 5+ weeks) I am required to take a perscription antacid. There are several different kinds of antacids I can take but all are perscription. Thus, I can not be released from any perscription. Is this grounds for Disqualification? even though it doesn't hinder me at all other than when I eat extremely dry foods like a peanut butter sandwich or something like that.

Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 8:02 pm , in reply to "DQ"

I do not know off-hand if this is a disqualifyer. Please check the Resources page and look it up under "Medical Enlistment Standards". I can tell you though, if you are taking prescription medications and must stay on them for your condition, then that can be grounds alone for disqualification. Again, I am no doctor. When in doubt, you can always go see your recruiter and have MEPS send you to get evaluated to see if your condition is compatible with military life.

Posted by Concerned on 4/7/2002, 5:21 pm

Are there any types of hazing rituals or rites of passage to look out for that may cause someone to do any extreme or immoral acts? If there are, what might the consequences be for refusal to go through with them? Would there be any recourse on those who force some one to go through something like that unwillingly?

Posted by JF on 4/8/2002, 7:51 am , in reply to "Hazing"

THERE MAY BE SOME HAZING WHEN YOU GET TO YOUR FIRST UNIT

Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 8:05 pm , in reply to "Hazing"

There is no kind of hazing allowed in BT..a lot is expected of recruits! Standards of military conduct are rigorously enforced and certainly won't be tolerated. You will also find drill sergeants as the best the Army has to offer (in most cases), and you certainly won't find anything of the kind in their ranks.

Posted by Ben on 4/7/2002, 5:23 pm

Is it possible to jump from one branch of the military to another? How is that done?

Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 8:08 pm , in reply to "Branch Jumping"

I assume you are talking enlisted MOSs. There will be opportunities in your military career where you may be able to reclassify to another MOS. First, the branch you are in has to release you (ie if there is no shortage) and then the gaining branch has to have a need (ie a shortage). For example, I had a drill sergeant whose MOS was a French Horn Player. He reclassed into Chemical and got a huge bonus in the process. He loved his new MOS.

Posted by Cliff on 4/7/2002, 5:26 pm

I heard from my recruiter that there is a 3 year inactive leave option that basically can put your job in the miltary on hold for you, for what ever reason you may want to do so, and when you get back you can start back up like you were never gone. Is this true and how does it work?

Posted by SSG Carruthers on 4/8/2002, 8:21 am , in reply to "inactive leave"

I do not know what your recruiter told you, what I want to know is if he showed any info on this. If not heres the gist. Inactive leave is given to a soldier who has a curable terminal illness, during that time, he/she is being admistered by a doctor during that time, if cured then the soldier will be activated and serve out his remaining time. Just getting up and taking a long term vacation, because you feel like it, won't happen, unless you ETS, and then decide to return as a Prior Service.SSG Carruthersfor Leave info go to this URLhttp://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_810.pdf

Posted by Brandon on 4/8/2002, 6:52 am

Just been doing some thinking over the weekend, and thought up some questions. 1) Are medicines like Ibprofin, Aleve, Advil, Tylenol, and the like allowed at Basic Training? 2) Are face medicines allowed? Stuff like face wash, acne cream, clearsil pads, and the like... 3) I will be at basic all summer, so that means i'll be there for the 4th of july. Any kind of 4Th of July festivities go on during Basic? Because that would be extra cool =) Brandon

Re: Medicine at Basic

Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:05 am , in reply to "Medicine at Basic"

I would go ahead and bring your OTC stuff. We never took away any of the face washing medicated type cleansers. We did allow basic OTC pain relievers, but then again, your BT company may be different. The worst that will happen..the stuff will be packed away. Even OTC medications can be prescribed and given to you on sickcall..no need to buy them, so don't think if you need some painkillers, you are out of luck. As far as the 4th of July. Again, things will depend on your post and who your commander is. At Ft Wood, we would take our recruits to the bleachers at the parade field to watch the fireworks show and then take them back to the barracks immediately following. I've heard on some posts, they allow the recruits to attend the festivities, being able to stuff themselves with candy, etc..and ride the carnival rides (this is always on post)...it all depends on who the commanders are at BT. Some want to keep things under strict control and some want the recruits to be able to let loose a little. Of course, most drill sergeants prefer no festivities! It always takes a few days to get the recruits back into the right mindset after such a celebration:-))

Re: Medicine at Basic

Posted by Dave Truitt on 4/8/2002, 9:36 am , in reply to "Medicine at Basic"

I don't think you are allowed to bring your own meds with you to basic...regardless of whether they are 'script or OTC. Could be wrong about this but that is what I have heard.

In DEP but now taking BP med

Posted by Jimbo on 4/8/2002, 9:51 am

Hi: I am in Army DEP but went to my family Dr. this past week with a sinus infection and he took my BP like they always do. It was very high, like 170/100. He put me on a BP med called Avapro. I am not a young man...34, at the very limit of being able to enlist. How will this affect me in regards to the Army. My Dr. said i might have to be on this for a long time. I don't want to jeopardize my Army career before it even starts...but i don't want to jeopardize my health either. What do do?

Re: In DEP but now taking BP med

Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:23 am , in reply to "In DEP but now taking BP med"

I would go to your recruiter and just let him know. If this turns out to be a chronic condition, yes it could jeopardize your entry into the Army. High blood pressure is nothing to fool around with, so please remember your health should be your main concern.

Posted by Randal on 4/8/2002, 6:55 pm

I went back to MEPS this morning. See below for last weeks episode. I sat in their waiting room for 6 hours before anyone talked to me. When they did, they said I could have all that I wanted if I just enlist for 4 years instead of the 3 I had asked. No problem. I get a bigger bonus, 11x/airborne contract, & station of choice in Italy. The only draw back is that I don't ship till September. My advice to all going to Meps: stick to your guns, play hardball, and don't sign until you are happy. You'll get what you want if you just hold out for it.

Posted by Kent on 4/8/2002, 7:20 pm

Does any one know how different the life style is in the guard as opposed to active duty? I mean, is the one week end drill as hard core as the active duty time but just for a week end or is it still layed back?

Posted by Natalie on 4/9/2002, 2:38 am , in reply to "National Guard"

The lifestyles are totally different because as a guardsman, you're a civilan/soilder. When you're active, you eat sleep and breath army. That is your job. But with the guard, you have a job outside of the army. Different MOS's require different amounts of work. The weekend of drill is very intense, since you only have 2 days to complete what needs to be done for the month. My MOS (02-U band member) requires me to practice for those 8 hours of drill per day. Other MOS's require the same dedication.

Posted by Peter on 4/8/2002, 8:56 pm

Does any one know anything about the MOS 71M? Any inside info?

Posted by Dave truitt on 4/9/2002, 10:18 am , in reply to "71M"

Peter: The MOS is no longer called 71M...it now goes by 56M. The change is very recent; the goarmy.com web site still has it as 71M but my contract says 56M and so will yours if you enlist for this. From what I understand, this MOS can encompass ALOT of things, from driving the Chaplain around and doing admin type stuff to actually helping the Chaplian minister to the troops on the battlefield and kind of acting as the Chaplain's personal "bodyguard" in a combat environment (in the US military, all Chaplain's are noncombatants...the can not even carry firearms even if their religious convictions do not prohibit this. So the Chap. Assistnat does carry a rifle do provide security for the UMT (Unit Ministry Team). All of your training would be at Ft. Jackson, SC...that is where the Chaplain's School is located. You can find out a lot more about this MOS by going to www.jackson.army.mil and following the links for "military students" to 56M AIT. It will give you a very good run down of what you will learn during your 7 weeks of AIT. Also, talk to your recruiter and ask if you can visit a local Army post and talk to some folks who do this MOS. My recruiter is very religious and knew a lot of friends in this field, so he took me to the Army post at Aberdeen Proving Ground, in Maryland and I talked to about 3 CAs.

Posted by Peter on 4/11/2002, 8:15 am , in reply to "Re: 71M"

Hey Dave, what made you decide to be a 56M? Oh yeah, national guard still uses 71M. So, I am still a 71M.

Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:28 am , in reply to "71M"

This can be a very rewarding job. Most chaplains assistants I know enjoy what they do. Depending on who is in your ministry team (chaplains), you could end up being a glorified gopher though at the lower enlisted levels, but there are many opportunities for growth, and believe me, there is always something to arrange! I would go to the Army Discussion Boards at Military.com (see link above) and ask for anyone's experience as a 71M. I'm sure someone will respond. It's always nice to hear from someone who is in the MOS you are interested in.

Posted by Josh on 4/8/2002, 10:09 pm

Hi, my name is Josh, i leave on July 2nd, i have a few questions, if someone could help me out, id appreciate it. The initail PT test to get into BT, constists of how many Pu, Su, and is it a 2-mile or 1 mile run? ok, Im going to Ft. Knox, i have the OSUT thing, im going in as a 19D, cavalry scout, can someone tell me how the training is for that, what we will do? also, after BCT, do i go straight to AIT? or do i get time off, what? during AIT, what is the living arrangements like? DOes anyone know where i most likely will be stationed after AIT? One last question, ive heard that it is hard to take leave from duty if youre getting married because the military doesnt want to have to pay the extra costs......as in they will try and delay you. Oh yeah, sorry, i know this is long, but one more, if you are married, say youre and E-3, what is your pay then? how much does it go up? thanks all that help, i realy appreciate this.

Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:52 am , in reply to "Basic & AIT"

Whew, lots of questions. I don't have the time to look up individual questions, so I will just point you in the right direction. As far as getting into basic, there is no PT test, per se. At the reception station, they will give you a little test to determine how in shape you are. On the Resources Page, you page down til you get to the Ft Jackson link and go to Fitness Training Units to find the scores. The run is only 1 mile as opposed to 2 miles in the actual test. http://www.jackson.army.mil/tccbde/FTU.htm Also on the Resource Page, read the OSUT link for Ft Knox. It's not for Cavalry Scout, but it will give you an idea of how OSUT will go at Ft Knox. You will stay with the same set of drill sergeants and live in the same set of barracks for BT and AIT. No clue what they do at Ft Knox, but I'm sure the longer you are there, the more liberties you will get. Most AITs give out passes on the weekends sometime during AIT. As far as your MOS, you'll either go to an Armor or Mechanized Infantry unit. They are all over the world, so you could technically go anywhere! I don't know where you heard that about taking leave. It doesn't matter whether you are married or not! You don't get paid any extra for taking leave. This is just "vacation" time that you earn while in the Army that you can use as long as your commander approves it. You can put in for leave at any time, but do remember that there will be some restrictions as to when you can go and for how long (mission requirements, training missions, how many others put in for leave at the same time, etc..). If you check the paycharts on the Resources page, you can see what an E-3 gets paid. If housing is not available on post, then you will get paid a basic allowance for housing (BAH), which is more than a single person would get. The base pay for a married and single E-3 remains the same. Of course, once you do your taxes, the person with more deductions (ie married and/or with kids) will end up giving up less, tax-wise.

"Assistance" in m-16 qualifying

Posted by Ralph on 4/9/2002, 10:57 am

ok, I've heard a rumor that if you can not qualify on your m16 in Army Basic that a Drill Seargent will "help" you qualify by taking your weapon and firing at the target for you. My recruiter basically confirmed this at our DEP meeting last week, saying that "it reflects poorly on the Drills to have a recruit who can't qualify so sometimes the scores are fabricated, espcially if the recruit is close." I also read about the same practice in a book called "Making the Corps," which is about USMC Boot Camp but the author talks about the Army too and how it compares and makes the statement that if a recruit tries to "wash out" of BCT by failing to qualify the DS will take the weapon and shoot for him/her. Does this really happen? Doesn't this go against all the talk of "Core Values?" Is this one of Basic Trainings "dirty little secrets?

Re: "Assistance" in m-16 qualifying

Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 11:30 am , in reply to ""Assistance" in m-16 qualifying"

I am truly shocked that your recruiter would say that! I have trained thousands of soldiers and out of those, only a small percentage were never able to qualify. Drill sergeants will go out of their way and spend countless of one-on-one hours with a recruit, retraining, practicing and going back out to ranges to qualify. Drill sergeants take an exceptional amount of pride in their ability to teach a recruit how to shoot and qualify. I have only separated a few recruits who were unable to qualify and even though it counts "against you" in the numbers, we would rather have that than send an untrained recruit into the Army who may one day be in the foxhole next to me, the drill sergeant or anyone else for that matter! The qualification range (as are all ranges) are controlled by cadre who are not drill sergeants and are not part of your company. They control what goes on in the tower. Believe me, you would NEVER see a drill sergeant take a private's weapon and shoot for them. When each private shoots, the computer records the hits for the targets for that individual. It's not like someone can just decide to "pencil in" some kind of score. These sheets then get sent back to the company and get added to the soldier's file. No drill sergeant or other soldier who has any kind of integrity or smarts would even think about trying to "fudge the numbers" by going back in someone's file to change anything. It's not worth the drill sergeant's career, and as I said, drills have no problem with sending someone home if the recruit can't shoot. Yes, it hurts their pride a little but that's a small thing compared to giving up your integrity.

Posted by Geoff on 4/10/2002, 7:57 am

I am going to AIT on September as 91W. The training will go past Christmas and New Years. I am wondering if anyone know the dates for Army Exidus (or Christmas & New Years holiday)? My family need me to spend time with relatives oversea. If my trip date conflict with the training date...what kind of options do I have for taking a leave for like maybe one day?

Posted by R on 4/13/2002, 7:05 pm , in reply to "EXIDUS Dates"

I'm not sure what your schedule will be like at AIT, but you can safely assume you'll get two weeks..in fact, I think the schedules are very similar to school breaks. You usually have to be back around the 2nd or 3rd. You will also be expected to be back on time, because the company will jump right back into training. I'm not sure how they do things in AIT, but I would assume that you cannot take extra days unless there is a strong enough reason for that. I'm sure you'll find out more when you start AIT.

Posted by Geoff on 4/13/2002, 9:56 pm , in reply to "Re: EXODUS Dates"

Thank you so much for the response. My schedule is very similar to the Christmas break in school. Thinking about leaving to my family on Dec 23rd till JAn 1. I was just afraid that my Dec 23 might be abit too early for the AIT break starts.

Posted by Medic Rules! on 4/10/2002, 8:31 am

I kept on hearing Fort Leonard Wood is called " Fort Lonely Wood". Are there anyone can tell me what is that place is like? I am having my BT over there...kind of anxious to find out what kind of place I will be dealing with.

Re: Fort Leonard Wood

Posted by R on 4/13/2002, 7:08 pm , in reply to "Fort Leonard Wood"

Ft Wood is in the middle of nowhere, hence the various nicknames (also known as Ft Lost-in-the-Woods). It is your typical large Army post with lots of training areas for many soldiers. I wouldn't worry too much about what's around there, because you won't get to "enjoy" it anyway while in BT! The area is a favorite duty assignment for people who like to hunt and fish, go boating (Lake of the Ozarks), but that's about it. No big cities in the area, a few clubs just off post with a scattering of hole-in-the-wall restaurants..to get to any serious "cultural" events, you have to drive quite a haul.

Re: Fort Leonard Wood

Posted by Brandon on 4/10/2002, 10:24 am , in reply to "Fort Leonard Wood"

I've always heard Fort Lost-in-the-wood, but hey, i'm sure every BT fort has alot of nicknames! I actually drove past the place about three weeks ago when i took a roadtrip from chicago to oklahoma city, and yeah, it's smack in the middle of the woods! I've heard alot of cool stuff about Wood, and they specialize in Military Police and Engineering. Maybe more too, but perhaps Raquel can help out more. I think she was there for some time.

Posted by Lynn on 4/10/2002, 3:56 pm

I'm thinking about joining the reserves and I just have one question. If I really like and decide that it's the only thing I want to do, is it difficult to move from reserves to active duty? Thanks!

Posted by new reservist from MN on 4/10/2002, 5:01 pm , in reply to "Reserves"

Lynn,I am kind of in the same situation. I talked with my recruiter and he said that it is depending on your reserve unit where you will be station at. That is because they are the one who spend money on your training. He said it is better to wait like 6 months in your serve before switching to Active service. But if you have second thought, you should let your recruiter know right away. Some people said that if you notify your recruiter before your second MEPs..they might be able to do something (if they are nice that is). FYI, this will generate TONS of paper for the recruiter.

Warrent Officer Options

Posted by Tim on 4/10/2002, 9:40 pm

Does any one have any information on how to become a warrent officer, in particuler a helicopter pilot?

Re: Warrent Officer Options

Posted by Memphis on 4/11/2002, 10:13 am , in reply to "Warrent Officer Options"

Tim, YES!! I have all the information and points of contact under the sun for enlistment into the Warrant Officer Flight Training program. I started the packet late last summer and was accepted/selected this past Sept. My flight school, after basic and Warrant Officer Candidate School, should start early next year. http://www.goarmy.com/job/warrant/index.htm Start with that web site.... Review the requirements such as AVSAB - GT section score and the vision requirement to pass a Class 1A flight physical. (Correctable to 20/20 & Uncorrected: not worse than 20/50) Also, look at the age requirements. If you meet all of those prerequisites, post your E-mail address on this board and I'll E-mail you. Start looking now for a good recruiter.....cause very few of them actually want to help you get a WOFT packet together (very time consuming) Also, if this is want you want, don't accept anything short. Don't fall for the "enlist into a MOS, then apply for flight school".

Re: Warrent Officer Options

Posted by Tim on 4/11/2002, 7:13 pm , in reply to "Re: Warrent Officer Options"

Hey, Thanks for the reply. But here's my situation. I recently signed up for the Army National Guard. I haven't even gone to MEPS yet but thats the next step. However, my recruiter has told me, after I had signed everything because I didn't even really know about it or ask until after I signed up, that I can still apply for that option later in the Guard. In his words I need to show a "high aptitude for aviation" and be recommended by my commanding officer. Another interesting factor is that I will be in the same unit as my recruiter, so I will be working with him ans seeing him every time I go to drill and then some because he wants to use me to help him recruit more high school kids. Any ways, because of this he said he could still help get me into a warrent officer program later. But still send me all the info you can. I would greatly appreciate it!

Re: Warrent Officer Options

Posted by Memphis on 4/11/2002, 9:25 pm , in reply to "Re: Warrent Officer Options"

Tim, So far, from what you have said, it sounds like your being told the truth. However it is a truth that will not serve you well in the "real world." Yes, you can apply for WOFT while in a Guard unit and part of the process does require your Commanding Officer to recommend you. However, getting a flight slot in a Guard unit is very, very tough. If you get a completed packet together (ASVAB, AFAST, Physical, 6 letters of recommendation, interview by field grade aviator, interview by Unit Commander, Class 1A flight physical, letter of "why you want to be an Army Aviator, etc.........you'll be "boarded." You might get selected.......you might not. If you are selected then your placed on a flight school waiting list (often listed by senority)......you might get picked off the list, you might not. Your state might get flight school slots....they might not. Risky outlook, at best! While I don't know your recruiter, believe that he might tell you anything to get you into that unit. If you want to fly.....I mean really want to fly and will take it serious....do not settle for anything less. Seek active duty........ I'd urge you to contact an Active Duty recruiter and ask to start the WOFT process. If they try to talk you into a different MOS, don't buy it. Stick to your guns and demand the WOFT process, nothing else. I'll E-mail you with my address and contact info.

Just came back from a Drill, few questions

Posted by Z.D. on 4/10/2002, 9:47 pm

I just got back from a Drill in Springfield, IL. This part is about women so...They tell us that we're not allowed to shave when we get to Basic...is that true? And that the only underwear we're allowed to wear is the granny style underwear. I thought it only had to be cotton. I know I'm not out to impress anyone with my underwear, but aren't granny underoos uncomfortable? And are you allowed to bring liquid soap instead of the bar kind? Liquid tends to last longer. And another question... In AIT, do they treat you better? how are the living conditions? And are you put up with other people who have the same MOS as you. I'm a 63S Heavy Wheel Vehicle Mech. Will there be other girls there with the same MOS who will be able to help me out?

Re: Just came back from a Drill, few questions

Posted by R on 4/13/2002, 7:13 pm , in reply to "Just came back from a Drill, few questions"

The different training posts may do things a bit differently, but that's the first time I've heard about "no shaving". We allowed our female soldiers to shave at Ft Wood, don't know about the other posts. Yes, the granny underwear is recommended, but again, we did allow plain underwear also (not necessarily granny). Again, the soap will depend on your company and what their rules are, but I would bring it if you are used to it. The worst that can happen is that they may make you get a bar of soap, if that is what you are required to have. In AIT you will be surrounded by other 63S, both male and female. You'll get the same instruction, just bunk with the females.

Re: Just came back from a Drill, few questions

Posted by Z.D on 4/14/2002, 11:59 am , in reply to "Re: Just came back from a Drill, few questions"

The no Shaving thing was from someone who finished Basic at Jackson. ...I wish they sent me to Ft Wood.... :_(



			Army Basic Training Archived Messages Page 7

		Back to Army Basic Training Homepage Back to Archived Messages

	Archived BoardHost Messages (Army Basic Training) Use the CTRL+F Function of your keyboard to enable a keyword search

bonus question Posted by Jim on 4/4/2002, 1:21 pm 206.114.250.208 My son when to BT at Benning in March. When he enlisted back in April as 11x, he was, according to his recruiter, to receive a bonus for, I think $4000. Since he has a GED they told him when he signed up that he could not have the bonus because of the GED. Can someone explain this?? Re: bonus question Posted by SSG Carruthers on 4/5/2002, 9:18 am , in reply to "bonus question" 32.103.55.253 First the Recruiter was wrong if he made any promises about bonuse, because we (the Recruiters) cannot garentee anything. Only the the Guidance Concelors at the Military Processing Center can guarentee anything, because they write the contracts, which are closed end contracts that can not be changed by the Army, unless the applicant does something that would disqulify him/her from military service.2nd, in the contract your son got will tell you exactly what his bonuses, if any are. 3rd, GED's USUALLY do not qualify for bonuses, unless they have a minumum of 15 college credit hours, then they are considered High School Grads. Why, I really counld'nt tell you.4th, This also depends on the Apllicants score on the ASVAB. If you need to speak to me about this or need any other info, please feel free to call me at (717) 721-6145 from 9:00am EST till 8:00pmSSG Carruthers Best Job Options? Posted by George Ford on 4/4/2002, 5:29 pm 66.1.84.203 I just talked with my recruiter who basically opened all doors to me. He said I could pick practically any job I wanted due to my high scores on the ASVAB. One that he suggested for me was 51T. Does any one have any suggestions about any other jobs I should look into or inside info on this job. BTY, this is for the National Guard, not active duty. Re: Best Job Options? Posted by R on 4/5/2002, 11:01 am , in reply to "Best Job Options?" 204.119.243.30 Please remember though that your recruiter can't promise you anything! Read the post above yours. I would go to MEPS with a few ideas of MOSs in mind. I would go to the Army Discussion Board at Military.com above and ask for soldier's day-to-day experiences in the MOSs you are interested in. Some comments on BT at Ft Jackson Posted by R on 4/5/2002, 10:59 am 204.119.243.30 Follow the link below to read a discussion at Military.com on Ft Jackson: Link: http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?q=Y&a=tpc&s=78919038&f=65819558&m=3331986414 days off Posted by Robert on 4/5/2002, 2:08 pm 67.240.150.112 I start boot camp August 28th at Ft. Leonard Wood. I also have AIT training at the same base because I am training to be an MP. How many days off do I get since I do not have to travel to another location? Also, should my family come to the boot camp graduation or the graduation at the completion of AIT, if there is one at the end of AIT? Re: days off Posted by R on 4/6/2002, 8:38 am , in reply to "days off" 204.119.245.96 Yes, I encourage that your family comes to graduation of BT! It is a big milestone in your life! There will be activities for your family, plus your family can sign you out to spend the night before graduation with them in the hotel. After the graduation ceremony, there is a lunch scheduled in the dining facility (your mess hall) that the parents can go to with you. They usually try to have "surf and turf", but it always depends on the budget for that time for your mess hall. Now this is how we do things in a strictly BT unit. Immediately after, there is a flurry of activity as the drill sergeants separate who goes where. Those staying on post but going over to AIT will be marched over with a truck carrying their bags. The AIT companies will then usually let the parents sign them out on a weekend pass. Those without family present will get on-post passes and have to check in frequently. Training then usually starts that next Monday. girl stuff Posted by Sue on 4/5/2002, 3:30 pm 12.78.146.149 Just wondering what being a girl in bootcamp will be like. I'm sure once I'm there, I won't even have time to think about these things anyway! Are women allowed to bring things like a razor? I know it doesn't really matter, but I'd hate to run around w/ hairy legs for 9 weeks Also, there are obviously certain times of the month when you'd have to go to the latrine a little more often. Are the drill instructors rough on you about this kind of thing? Thanks! Re: girl stuff Posted by Brandon on 4/5/2002, 3:38 pm , in reply to "girl stuff" 128.255.191.196 Hi there. Well, I'm definitly not a girl, but i did read something that was an awesome read. I actually found it here on Raquel's Resources page, but i'll save you the trouble and post the link myself =) It's an excellent dirary kept by a female recruit in 2001. I'm sure males, along with females, will learn alot from this diary. It's long, but well worth it. Check it out Link: Diary of a Female Recruit Re: girl stuff Posted by Brandon on 4/5/2002, 3:39 pm , in reply to "Re: girl stuff" 128.255.191.196 woops, messed up the link, here it is.... Link: Diary of a Female Recruit Just did MEPS. It sucked. Posted by Randal on 4/6/2002, 11:15 am 66.69.196.142 Just got back from MEPS in San Antonio, TX and I thought I would relay some of the experiences I had. On Thursday night, I was shuttled to MEPS to take my ASVAB. We were greeted at the door by very rude NAVY personel working the control desk. After waiting for 1.5 hours, I was able to sit down to take the test. The room was freezing. My teeth never stopped chattering. The test wasn't bad. I actually got a 99 for the overall (AFQT) score. They said that is as high as you can get. As you can imagine, I was pretty happy that evening. It is too bad the next day sucked. We headed down to the MEPS station at 5:00 to start on the physicals. Everything was going smoothly until they noticed I had a curvature of the spine. I turns out I have scoliosis. They said I needed to get X-rays taken, but they needed to send me to a medical facility somewhere else in the city. They shuttled me to this facility where I sat for hours waiting to have my X-rays taken. After taken, I had to wait an hour to get films. I then called the phone# that MEPS gave me for the shuttle, but could never get hold of anyone. It either rang non-stop or was busy. I kept trying to call for a solid hour until I gave up on that number. You would think that being at a military facility in the same city as MEPS, that someone there would know how to call MEPS directly, but nope... nobody could find the number. I had to search high and low for a phone book to get the number to MEPS. I then called them and let them know that I have been trying to call the shuttle for over an hour and could they try and send someone to get me. After another 30 minutes, my ride came. So I get back to MEPS and show my X-Rays to the doctor who sent me to get them taken. It turns out that I am well within the acceptable limits, but the jerk doctor actually sighed and very disappointedly said, "well... I guess you qualify." The jerk was looking for a reason to DQ me. He actually looked upset that I passed. I then got talk to my career councelor person and they asked what I want to do. I tell them that I want an 11x - airborne contract with a station in an airborne unit (82nd or 173rd). They tried to talk me out of going infantry. They kept asking why a college grad would want to go infantry. I told them that the only way I would sign is with those three above requirments in my contract. Not too much to ask really. People have been asking these things for years. Here is where it gets weird. They say that there is no way I could get into the 82nd or the 173rd. In fact, they said there there is little possibility for me to even get airborne. It is all full. There are no training slots. But the whole time they are saying this, they are also pushing me to take an 18X (special forces) contract. This sounds cool, but I don't think I could pass the SFAS selection. I am smart enough to know my physical limitations. What I am worried about is that if I fail SFAS (which 80% do) then I'd be up for "worldwide assignment". They could send me to Korea ( a year without my wife) or Ft. Polk, or Alaska, or Ft. Drum. What I am saying is that they could send me any where in the world and fill any old 11B spot. The Army person kept saying,"no, no, no. They'll put you in an Airborne unit. Why would they spend all of that money and put you in a "legs" unit or a mech. inf. unit?" Everywhere I have looked and everything my recruiter has told me is that this is a lie. They can put you anywhere. ANYWHERE! She insisted that "world-wide assignment" didn't actually mean what it sounded like. If anyone can clarify this, I'd appreciate this. This went on for a while, but because it took so long for me to get my X-Rays, it was already late Friday afternoon and there was nobody they could call. They said they will try again if I come back on Monday. I am a college grad in good physical shape who scored a 99 on the ASVAB and I can't even get into an airborne unit. I'm not in the Army yet and I am scared at the crazy beaurocracy I will have to live with if I do go in. We'll see how it goes on Monday. Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked. Posted by s on 4/12/2002, 5:18 pm , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked." 24.95.87.111 If you are a college graduate with such a high ASVAB score, have you considered (OCS) Officer Candidate School? If your college grades were good, you should have little trouble qualifying. Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked. Posted by JC on 4/8/2002, 8:03 am , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked." 204.211.15.101 I AGREE WITH WHAT THE OTHERS ARE SAYING. WHEN I WAS AT MEPS THEY TOLD ME I COULDNT GET AIRBORNE SCHOOL AND THAT IT HAD NO OPENINGS. THEN THE JOB CLASSIFIER MADE ONE PHONE CALL AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WAS THERE. SO, THE CAN GIVE YOU WANT YOU WANT! GOOD LUCK Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked. Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 9:31 am , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked." 204.119.243.41 The whole MEPS system probably needs a good "shakedown". Mind you, I personally do not know anyone (or have ever known anyone) who works in MEPS, but I am constantly hearing such accounts! Just terrible! Please don't judge the rest of the Army on the folks who work at your MEPS! If you have made up your mind on what you want to do in the military, then stick to your guns. Your request is not that out of the ordinary. This SF option must be new, as I've just been hearing about it this year. You're right, your heart really has to be in it to make it through SFAS, and even then they might not take you. Worldwide means just that..ie, wherever there is a slot, you will go (in whatever unit). Granted, if you are airborne, they would most likely send you to an airborne unit, but again, it is no guarantee. I don't know how long you plan to be in the Army but chances are very good that you would go to Korea after your first duty assignment (let's say if you got your first duty station in your contract..there is no guarantee that you would stay stateside after that). Many, many married soldiers serve in Korea, and many without their families. It's just one of the sacrifices we make, so if you do join up, please do be prepared for separations from your family (not just Korea but you'll go on training exercise, sometimes up to a month or you could get deployed with your unit for 6 months elsewhere in the world..just because you are stationed stateside does not mean you will not participate in these deployments or exercises). Good luck! Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked. Posted by MemphisFire on 4/6/2002, 10:23 pm , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked." 150.201.17.160 >>I am a college grad in good physical shape who scored a 99 on the ASVAB and I can't even get into an airborne unit. I'm not in the Army yet and I am scared at the crazy beaurocracy I will have to live with if I do go in.<< Your MEPS experiences are much like mine and many other people. I feel the Doctors and Physical Exams staff are "graded" or evaluated on how many people they are able to DQ. (ie. the more you DQ, the more it looks like you are doing your job) The only hypocrisy in all of this is when your recruiter tells you to lie about a preexisting medical condition. With your grades and drive have you ever thought about becoming a military pilot? The US Army has a Warrant Officer Flight Training program that sounds like you'd qualify for. Of course, if you do mention this, I doubt your recruiter would actually support your decision. But, as a Pilot you can be assigned to an Air Assault unit, Special Forces (SOAR), etc. Bottom line......get what you want. They work for your tax money. Re: Just did MEPS. It sucked. Posted by Ashli on 4/6/2002, 3:22 pm , in reply to "Just did MEPS. It sucked." 66.87.128.138 As a military spouse for the last 10 years, let me assure you that the army is NOTHING like MEPS. I just enlisted for OCS. It's taken me 6 months to get to this point. I had to get a med waiver and about 500 other waivers to get in. Our MEPS doc is a complete jerk and had a good time disqualifying me. The army surgeon general approved my waiver and just wanted one statement from this doc--that he saw proof I was cancer free for 5 or more years. I provided that, but everytime I submitted documents, he (MEPS doc) found something else he wanted to check out. We finally complained about him to the LTC, and I had my med waiver the next day. I never want to see MEPS again, but I have to go back there to ship out. Be sure to stick to your guns about what you want. Tell them if they can't give it to you, you're leaving and maybe you'll go talk to another branch. Tell them to give you a call when they have the job and schools you want available, and maybe you'll still be interested. It may take some time, but I'll bet they come around. Remember--don't settle!!! Good luck! Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...? Posted by Chris on 4/6/2002, 12:20 pm 24.93.214.25 Hello everyone. I would just like to know what everybody here thinks of the Air Force. Preferably from people in it. Re: Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...? Posted by Dave Truitt on 4/8/2002, 2:31 pm , in reply to "Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...?" 64.26.69.130 Chris: Well, i don't think too many AF people frequent this site...there may be a similar site out there for the AF. My impressions of the AF is that it is a good service (they all are). If you're asking whether it's better than the Army, I think that is a VERY idividual decision. For some people the AF is the better choice, for others, the Army is. It just depends on what you're looking for. I will say this, however: the Army offers more enlistment options that the AF. In some MOS, you can enlist for just 2 years in the Army; in the AF, you must enlist for at least 4 years. Also, a lot of people go into the AF WITHOUT a guaranteed job...in other words, they go to Basic without knowing exactly what they will be training for once the leave Basic. They find out while they are at Lackland. This might happen in the Army too, but it is the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of people who enlist in the Army know exactly what they are going to be going after Basic...the have it guaranteed in their contract. The Army is also a bit more generous with the bonus $, guaranteed first duty assignment, and pre basic promotions. The AF will only promote to a max of E-3, even if you already have a college degree, while the Army will go to E-4 for degreed applicants. Of course, some would say that the Army has to offer these incentives in order to complete for quality applicants with the other services. Re: Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...? Posted by Chris on 4/9/2002, 5:34 pm , in reply to "Re: Your Opinions of the Air Force? Benefits? Physical Activity? Pay? Life in...?" 24.93.214.25 I appreciate your response, Dave. Thanks for the insight. I really am open as to what I want to do. Let's just say that physically I am more than ready for even SEAL BUD/S training. What it comes down to for me is which branch is right for me? That's a decision really need to research. Moving Expenses Posted by Jo on 4/6/2002, 5:24 pm 64.173.196.149 Does the Army cover moving expenses for all soldiers? My husband is going back into the military and I am enlisting for immediate OCS. We need to know if the Army will cover either one of us to PCS. Thanks! Re: Moving Expenses Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 9:21 am , in reply to "Moving Expenses" 204.119.243.41 Of course the Army will cover your PCS! Maybe I misunderstand you somehow? If the military reassigns you to a new duty station, they will always pay for the move. Church Services Posted by Henry Cook on 4/7/2002, 4:59 pm 66.1.84.203 How are the Church services segregated? Are all Christians put together or are they segregated into thier prospective denominations (i.e. pentacostal, catholic, mormon, baptist, or any others)? What about those who are Buddist or Hindu, do they have religious accomodations there as well? Re: Church Services Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 7:59 pm , in reply to "Church Services" 204.119.242.71 For the major denominations, there are usually services for those at the chapels (ie there will be a Catholic service and a Protestant one). Of course in addition to these, there are also smaller ones encompassing just about every religious faith you can think of (including Buddhist, Moslem, Jewish, etc..). Everyone is accomodated. We even had a person who practiced the religion of the Druids and he was allowed to commune with nature. Military priests, chaplains, rabbis, etc are well-schooled in most of the religious faiths and even if there is not a religious pastor/priest of your faith on post, the others are taught to provide you with the resources you need to practice your religion. DQ Posted by Sam on 4/7/2002, 5:12 pm 66.1.84.203 I have what is known as a Hiatal Hernia. Basically there is a funneling of the asophagus right before the stomach, so the complication is that dry foods get caught just before they enter into the stomach. I had this corrected and i order for it to stay corrected for a long time (5+ years rather than 5+ weeks) I am required to take a perscription antacid. There are several different kinds of antacids I can take but all are perscription. Thus, I can not be released from any perscription. Is this grounds for Disqualification? even though it doesn't hinder me at all other than when I eat extremely dry foods like a peanut butter sandwich or something like that. Re: DQ Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 8:02 pm , in reply to "DQ" 204.119.242.71 I do not know off-hand if this is a disqualifyer. Please check the Resources page and look it up under "Medical Enlistment Standards". I can tell you though, if you are taking prescription medications and must stay on them for your condition, then that can be grounds alone for disqualification. Again, I am no doctor. When in doubt, you can always go see your recruiter and have MEPS send you to get evaluated to see if your condition is compatible with military life. Hazing Posted by Concerned on 4/7/2002, 5:21 pm 66.1.84.203 Are there any types of hazing rituals or rites of passage to look out for that may cause someone to do any extreme or immoral acts? If there are, what might the consequences be for refusal to go through with them? Would there be any recourse on those who force some one to go through something like that unwillingly? Re: Hazing Posted by JF on 4/8/2002, 7:51 am , in reply to "Hazing" 204.211.15.101 THERE MAY BE SOME HAZING WHEN YOU GET TO YOUR FIRST UNIT Re: Hazing Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 8:05 pm , in reply to "Hazing" 204.119.242.71 There is no kind of hazing allowed in BT..a lot is expected of recruits! Standards of military conduct are rigorously enforced and certainly won't be tolerated. You will also find drill sergeants as the best the Army has to offer (in most cases), and you certainly won't find anything of the kind in their ranks. Branch Jumping Posted by Ben on 4/7/2002, 5:23 pm 66.1.84.203 Is it possible to jump from one branch of the military to another? How is that done? Re: Branch Jumping Posted by R on 4/7/2002, 8:08 pm , in reply to "Branch Jumping" 204.119.242.71 I assume you are talking enlisted MOSs. There will be opportunities in your military career where you may be able to reclassify to another MOS. First, the branch you are in has to release you (ie if there is no shortage) and then the gaining branch has to have a need (ie a shortage). For example, I had a drill sergeant whose MOS was a French Horn Player. He reclassed into Chemical and got a huge bonus in the process. He loved his new MOS. inactive leave Posted by Cliff on 4/7/2002, 5:26 pm 66.1.84.203 I heard from my recruiter that there is a 3 year inactive leave option that basically can put your job in the miltary on hold for you, for what ever reason you may want to do so, and when you get back you can start back up like you were never gone. Is this true and how does it work? Re: inactive leave Posted by SSG Carruthers on 4/8/2002, 8:21 am , in reply to "inactive leave" 32.103.56.21 I do not know what your recruiter told you, what I want to know is if he showed any info on this. If not heres the gist. Inactive leave is given to a soldier who has a curable terminal illness, during that time, he/she is being admistered by a doctor during that time, if cured then the soldier will be activated and serve out his remaining time. Just getting up and taking a long term vacation, because you feel like it, won't happen, unless you ETS, and then decide to return as a Prior Service.SSG Carruthersfor Leave info go to this URLhttp://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_810.pdf Medicine at Basic Posted by Brandon on 4/8/2002, 6:52 am 128.255.191.196 Just been doing some thinking over the weekend, and thought up some questions. 1) Are medicines like Ibprofin, Aleve, Advil, Tylenol, and the like allowed at Basic Training? 2) Are face medicines allowed? Stuff like face wash, acne cream, clearsil pads, and the like... 3) I will be at basic all summer, so that means i'll be there for the 4th of july. Any kind of 4Th of July festivities go on during Basic? Because that would be extra cool =) Brandon Re: Medicine at Basic Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:05 am , in reply to "Medicine at Basic" 204.119.245.171 I would go ahead and bring your OTC stuff. We never took away any of the face washing medicated type cleansers. We did allow basic OTC pain relievers, but then again, your BT company may be different. The worst that will happen..the stuff will be packed away. Even OTC medications can be prescribed and given to you on sickcall..no need to buy them, so don't think if you need some painkillers, you are out of luck. As far as the 4th of July. Again, things will depend on your post and who your commander is. At Ft Wood, we would take our recruits to the bleachers at the parade field to watch the fireworks show and then take them back to the barracks immediately following. I've heard on some posts, they allow the recruits to attend the festivities, being able to stuff themselves with candy, etc..and ride the carnival rides (this is always on post)...it all depends on who the commanders are at BT. Some want to keep things under strict control and some want the recruits to be able to let loose a little. Of course, most drill sergeants prefer no festivities! It always takes a few days to get the recruits back into the right mindset after such a celebration:-)) Re: Medicine at Basic Posted by Dave Truitt on 4/8/2002, 9:36 am , in reply to "Medicine at Basic" 64.26.69.130 I don't think you are allowed to bring your own meds with you to basic...regardless of whether they are 'script or OTC. Could be wrong about this but that is what I have heard. In DEP but now taking BP med Posted by Jimbo on 4/8/2002, 9:51 am 64.26.69.130 Hi: I am in Army DEP but went to my family Dr. this past week with a sinus infection and he took my BP like they always do. It was very high, like 170/100. He put me on a BP med called Avapro. I am not a young man...34, at the very limit of being able to enlist. How will this affect me in regards to the Army. My Dr. said i might have to be on this for a long time. I don't want to jeopardize my Army career before it even starts...but i don't want to jeopardize my health either. What do do? Re: In DEP but now taking BP med Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:23 am , in reply to "In DEP but now taking BP med" 204.119.243.222 I would go to your recruiter and just let him know. If this turns out to be a chronic condition, yes it could jeopardize your entry into the Army. High blood pressure is nothing to fool around with, so please remember your health should be your main concern. MEPS (cont.) Posted by Randal on 4/8/2002, 6:55 pm 66.69.206.5 I went back to MEPS this morning. See below for last weeks episode. I sat in their waiting room for 6 hours before anyone talked to me. When they did, they said I could have all that I wanted if I just enlist for 4 years instead of the 3 I had asked. No problem. I get a bigger bonus, 11x/airborne contract, & station of choice in Italy. The only draw back is that I don't ship till September. My advice to all going to Meps: stick to your guns, play hardball, and don't sign until you are happy. You'll get what you want if you just hold out for it. National Guard Posted by Kent on 4/8/2002, 7:20 pm 66.1.84.203 Does any one know how different the life style is in the guard as opposed to active duty? I mean, is the one week end drill as hard core as the active duty time but just for a week end or is it still layed back? Re: National Guard Posted by Natalie on 4/9/2002, 2:38 am , in reply to "National Guard" 134.121.157.6 The lifestyles are totally different because as a guardsman, you're a civilan/soilder. When you're active, you eat sleep and breath army. That is your job. But with the guard, you have a job outside of the army. Different MOS's require different amounts of work. The weekend of drill is very intense, since you only have 2 days to complete what needs to be done for the month. My MOS (02-U band member) requires me to practice for those 8 hours of drill per day. Other MOS's require the same dedication. 71M Posted by Peter on 4/8/2002, 8:56 pm 66.1.84.203 Does any one know anything about the MOS 71M? Any inside info? Re: 71M Posted by Dave truitt on 4/9/2002, 10:18 am , in reply to "71M" 64.26.68.154 Peter: The MOS is no longer called 71M...it now goes by 56M. The change is very recent; the goarmy.com web site still has it as 71M but my contract says 56M and so will yours if you enlist for this. From what I understand, this MOS can encompass ALOT of things, from driving the Chaplain around and doing admin type stuff to actually helping the Chaplian minister to the troops on the battlefield and kind of acting as the Chaplain's personal "bodyguard" in a combat environment (in the US military, all Chaplain's are noncombatants...the can not even carry firearms even if their religious convictions do not prohibit this. So the Chap. Assistnat does carry a rifle do provide security for the UMT (Unit Ministry Team). All of your training would be at Ft. Jackson, SC...that is where the Chaplain's School is located. You can find out a lot more about this MOS by going to www.jackson.army.mil and following the links for "military students" to 56M AIT. It will give you a very good run down of what you will learn during your 7 weeks of AIT. Also, talk to your recruiter and ask if you can visit a local Army post and talk to some folks who do this MOS. My recruiter is very religious and knew a lot of friends in this field, so he took me to the Army post at Aberdeen Proving Ground, in Maryland and I talked to about 3 CAs. Re: 71M Posted by Peter on 4/11/2002, 8:15 am , in reply to "Re: 71M" 66.1.84.203 Hey Dave, what made you decide to be a 56M? Oh yeah, national guard still uses 71M. So, I am still a 71M. Re: 71M Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:28 am , in reply to "71M" 204.119.243.222 This can be a very rewarding job. Most chaplains assistants I know enjoy what they do. Depending on who is in your ministry team (chaplains), you could end up being a glorified gopher though at the lower enlisted levels, but there are many opportunities for growth, and believe me, there is always something to arrange! I would go to the Army Discussion Boards at Military.com (see link above) and ask for anyone's experience as a 71M. I'm sure someone will respond. It's always nice to hear from someone who is in the MOS you are interested in. Basic & AIT Posted by Josh on 4/8/2002, 10:09 pm 66.64.13.142 Hi, my name is Josh, i leave on July 2nd, i have a few questions, if someone could help me out, id appreciate it. The initail PT test to get into BT, constists of how many Pu, Su, and is it a 2-mile or 1 mile run? ok, Im going to Ft. Knox, i have the OSUT thing, im going in as a 19D, cavalry scout, can someone tell me how the training is for that, what we will do? also, after BCT, do i go straight to AIT? or do i get time off, what? during AIT, what is the living arrangements like? DOes anyone know where i most likely will be stationed after AIT? One last question, ive heard that it is hard to take leave from duty if youre getting married because the military doesnt want to have to pay the extra costs......as in they will try and delay you. Oh yeah, sorry, i know this is long, but one more, if you are married, say youre and E-3, what is your pay then? how much does it go up? thanks all that help, i realy appreciate this. Re: Basic & AIT Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 8:52 am , in reply to "Basic & AIT" 204.119.243.222 Whew, lots of questions. I don't have the time to look up individual questions, so I will just point you in the right direction. As far as getting into basic, there is no PT test, per se. At the reception station, they will give you a little test to determine how in shape you are. On the Resources Page, you page down til you get to the Ft Jackson link and go to Fitness Training Units to find the scores. The run is only 1 mile as opposed to 2 miles in the actual test. http://www.jackson.army.mil/tccbde/FTU.htm Also on the Resource Page, read the OSUT link for Ft Knox. It's not for Cavalry Scout, but it will give you an idea of how OSUT will go at Ft Knox. You will stay with the same set of drill sergeants and live in the same set of barracks for BT and AIT. No clue what they do at Ft Knox, but I'm sure the longer you are there, the more liberties you will get. Most AITs give out passes on the weekends sometime during AIT. As far as your MOS, you'll either go to an Armor or Mechanized Infantry unit. They are all over the world, so you could technically go anywhere! I don't know where you heard that about taking leave. It doesn't matter whether you are married or not! You don't get paid any extra for taking leave. This is just "vacation" time that you earn while in the Army that you can use as long as your commander approves it. You can put in for leave at any time, but do remember that there will be some restrictions as to when you can go and for how long (mission requirements, training missions, how many others put in for leave at the same time, etc..). If you check the paycharts on the Resources page, you can see what an E-3 gets paid. If housing is not available on post, then you will get paid a basic allowance for housing (BAH), which is more than a single person would get. The base pay for a married and single E-3 remains the same. Of course, once you do your taxes, the person with more deductions (ie married and/or with kids) will end up giving up less, tax-wise. "Assistance" in m-16 qualifying Posted by Ralph on 4/9/2002, 10:57 am 64.26.68.154 ok, I've heard a rumor that if you can not qualify on your m16 in Army Basic that a Drill Seargent will "help" you qualify by taking your weapon and firing at the target for you. My recruiter basically confirmed this at our DEP meeting last week, saying that "it reflects poorly on the Drills to have a recruit who can't qualify so sometimes the scores are fabricated, espcially if the recruit is close." I also read about the same practice in a book called "Making the Corps," which is about USMC Boot Camp but the author talks about the Army too and how it compares and makes the statement that if a recruit tries to "wash out" of BCT by failing to qualify the DS will take the weapon and shoot for him/her. Does this really happen? Doesn't this go against all the talk of "Core Values?" Is this one of Basic Trainings "dirty little secrets? Re: "Assistance" in m-16 qualifying Posted by R on 4/9/2002, 11:30 am , in reply to ""Assistance" in m-16 qualifying" 204.119.242.73 I am truly shocked that your recruiter would say that! I have trained thousands of soldiers and out of those, only a small percentage were never able to qualify. Drill sergeants will go out of their way and spend countless of one-on-one hours with a recruit, retraining, practicing and going back out to ranges to qualify. Drill sergeants take an exceptional amount of pride in their ability to teach a recruit how to shoot and qualify. I have only separated a few recruits who were unable to qualify and even though it counts "against you" in the numbers, we would rather have that than send an untrained recruit into the Army who may one day be in the foxhole next to me, the drill sergeant or anyone else for that matter! The qualification range (as are all ranges) are controlled by cadre who are not drill sergeants and are not part of your company. They control what goes on in the tower. Believe me, you would NEVER see a drill sergeant take a private's weapon and shoot for them. When each private shoots, the computer records the hits for the targets for that individual. It's not like someone can just decide to "pencil in" some kind of score. These sheets then get sent back to the company and get added to the soldier's file. No drill sergeant or other soldier who has any kind of integrity or smarts would even think about trying to "fudge the numbers" by going back in someone's file to change anything. It's not worth the drill sergeant's career, and as I said, drills have no problem with sending someone home if the recruit can't shoot. Yes, it hurts their pride a little but that's a small thing compared to giving up your integrity. EXIDUS Dates Posted by Geoff on 4/10/2002, 7:57 am 160.94.236.173 I am going to AIT on September as 91W. The training will go past Christmas and New Years. I am wondering if anyone know the dates for Army Exidus (or Christmas & New Years holiday)? My family need me to spend time with relatives oversea. If my trip date conflict with the training date...what kind of options do I have for taking a leave for like maybe one day? Re: EXODUS Dates Posted by R on 4/13/2002, 7:05 pm , in reply to "EXIDUS Dates" 204.119.242.213 I'm not sure what your schedule will be like at AIT, but you can safely assume you'll get two weeks..in fact, I think the schedules are very similar to school breaks. You usually have to be back around the 2nd or 3rd. You will also be expected to be back on time, because the company will jump right back into training. I'm not sure how they do things in AIT, but I would assume that you cannot take extra days unless there is a strong enough reason for that. I'm sure you'll find out more when you start AIT. Re: EXODUS Dates Posted by Geoff on 4/13/2002, 9:56 pm , in reply to "Re: EXODUS Dates" 137.192.135.48 Thank you so much for the response. My schedule is very similar to the Christmas break in school. Thinking about leaving to my family on Dec 23rd till JAn 1. I was just afraid that my Dec 23 might be abit too early for the AIT break starts. Fort Leonard Wood Posted by Medic Rules! on 4/10/2002, 8:31 am 160.94.236.173 I kept on hearing Fort Leonard Wood is called " Fort Lonely Wood". Are there anyone can tell me what is that place is like? I am having my BT over there...kind of anxious to find out what kind of place I will be dealing with. Re: Fort Leonard Wood Posted by R on 4/13/2002, 7:08 pm , in reply to "Fort Leonard Wood" 204.119.242.213 Ft Wood is in the middle of nowhere, hence the various nicknames (also known as Ft Lost-in-the-Woods). It is your typical large Army post with lots of training areas for many soldiers. I wouldn't worry too much about what's around there, because you won't get to "enjoy" it anyway while in BT! The area is a favorite duty assignment for people who like to hunt and fish, go boating (Lake of the Ozarks), but that's about it. No big cities in the area, a few clubs just off post with a scattering of hole-in-the-wall restaurants..to get to any serious "cultural" events, you have to drive quite a haul. Re: Fort Leonard Wood Posted by Brandon on 4/10/2002, 10:24 am , in reply to "Fort Leonard Wood" 128.255.191.196 I've always heard Fort Lost-in-the-wood, but hey, i'm sure every BT fort has alot of nicknames! I actually drove past the place about three weeks ago when i took a roadtrip from chicago to oklahoma city, and yeah, it's smack in the middle of the woods! I've heard alot of cool stuff about Wood, and they specialize in Military Police and Engineering. Maybe more too, but perhaps Raquel can help out more. I think she was there for some time. Reserves Posted by Lynn on 4/10/2002, 3:56 pm 199.67.138.25 I'm thinking about joining the reserves and I just have one question. If I really like and decide that it's the only thing I want to do, is it difficult to move from reserves to active duty? Thanks! Re: Reserves Posted by new reservist from MN on 4/10/2002, 5:01 pm , in reply to "Reserves" 192.28.2.52 Lynn,I am kind of in the same situation. I talked with my recruiter and he said that it is depending on your reserve unit where you will be station at. That is because they are the one who spend money on your training. He said it is better to wait like 6 months in your serve before switching to Active service. But if you have second thought, you should let your recruiter know right away. Some people said that if you notify your recruiter before your second MEPs..they might be able to do something (if they are nice that is). FYI, this will generate TONS of paper for the recruiter. Warrent Officer Options Posted by Tim on 4/10/2002, 9:40 pm 66.1.84.203 Does any one have any information on how to become a warrent officer, in particuler a helicopter pilot? Re: Warrent Officer Options Posted by Memphis on 4/11/2002, 10:13 am , in reply to "Warrent Officer Options" 150.201.17.191 Tim, YES!! I have all the information and points of contact under the sun for enlistment into the Warrant Officer Flight Training program. I started the packet late last summer and was accepted/selected this past Sept. My flight school, after basic and Warrant Officer Candidate School, should start early next year. http://www.goarmy.com/job/warrant/index.htm Start with that web site.... Review the requirements such as AVSAB - GT section score and the vision requirement to pass a Class 1A flight physical. (Correctable to 20/20 & Uncorrected: not worse than 20/50) Also, look at the age requirements. If you meet all of those prerequisites, post your E-mail address on this board and I'll E-mail you. Start looking now for a good recruiter.....cause very few of them actually want to help you get a WOFT packet together (very time consuming) Also, if this is want you want, don't accept anything short. Don't fall for the "enlist into a MOS, then apply for flight school". Re: Warrent Officer Options Posted by Tim on 4/11/2002, 7:13 pm , in reply to "Re: Warrent Officer Options" 66.1.84.203 Hey, Thanks for the reply. But here's my situation. I recently signed up for the Army National Guard. I haven't even gone to MEPS yet but thats the next step. However, my recruiter has told me, after I had signed everything because I didn't even really know about it or ask until after I signed up, that I can still apply for that option later in the Guard. In his words I need to show a "high aptitude for aviation" and be recommended by my commanding officer. Another interesting factor is that I will be in the same unit as my recruiter, so I will be working with him ans seeing him every time I go to drill and then some because he wants to use me to help him recruit more high school kids. Any ways, because of this he said he could still help get me into a warrent officer program later. But still send me all the info you can. I would greatly appreciate it! Re: Warrent Officer Options Posted by Memphis on 4/11/2002, 9:25 pm , in reply to "Re: Warrent Officer Options" 150.201.25.98 Tim, So far, from what you have said, it sounds like your being told the truth. However it is a truth that will not serve you well in the "real world." Yes, you can apply for WOFT while in a Guard unit and part of the process does require your Commanding Officer to recommend you. However, getting a flight slot in a Guard unit is very, very tough. If you get a completed packet together (ASVAB, AFAST, Physical, 6 letters of recommendation, interview by field grade aviator, interview by Unit Commander, Class 1A flight physical, letter of "why you want to be an Army Aviator, etc.........you'll be "boarded." You might get selected.......you might not. If you are selected then your placed on a flight school waiting list (often listed by senority)......you might get picked off the list, you might not. Your state might get flight school slots....they might not. Risky outlook, at best! While I don't know your recruiter, believe that he might tell you anything to get you into that unit. If you want to fly.....I mean really want to fly and will take it serious....do not settle for anything less. Seek active duty........ I'd urge you to contact an Active Duty recruiter and ask to start the WOFT process. If they try to talk you into a different MOS, don't buy it. Stick to your guns and demand the WOFT process, nothing else. I'll E-mail you with my address and contact info. Just came back from a Drill, few questions Posted by Z.D. on 4/10/2002, 9:47 pm 12.84.7.124 I just got back from a Drill in Springfield, IL. This part is about women so...They tell us that we're not allowed to shave when we get to Basic...is that true? And that the only underwear we're allowed to wear is the granny style underwear. I thought it only had to be cotton. I know I'm not out to impress anyone with my underwear, but aren't granny underoos uncomfortable? And are you allowed to bring liquid soap instead of the bar kind? Liquid tends to last longer. And another question... In AIT, do they treat you better? how are the living conditions? And are you put up with other people who have the same MOS as you. I'm a 63S Heavy Wheel Vehicle Mech. Will there be other girls there with the same MOS who will be able to help me out? Re: Just came back from a Drill, few questions Posted by R on 4/13/2002, 7:13 pm , in reply to "Just came back from a Drill, few questions" 204.119.242.213 The different training posts may do things a bit differently, but that's the first time I've heard about "no shaving". We allowed our female soldiers to shave at Ft Wood, don't know about the other posts. Yes, the granny underwear is recommended, but again, we did allow plain underwear also (not necessarily granny). Again, the soap will depend on your company and what their rules are, but I would bring it if you are used to it. The worst that can happen is that they may make you get a bar of soap, if that is what you are required to have. In AIT you will be surrounded by other 63S, both male and female. You'll get the same instruction, just bunk with the females. Re: Just came back from a Drill, few questions Posted by Z.D on 4/14/2002, 11:59 am , in reply to "Re: Just came back from a Drill, few questions" 12.84.7.223 The no Shaving thing was from someone who finished Basic at Jackson. ...I wish they sent me to Ft Wood.... :_(

				This page was last updated on: April 15, 2002